episode transcript
Erin Fields: Alright, well hello and happy time zones to those listening, no matter where you may be!
Welcome to the Summit Ahead, a podcast for future graduate students, brought to you by the West Virginia University Office of Graduate Admissions.
I am your host, Erin Fields and I invite you to join me over the course of this show’s season as I chat with higher education professionals at West Virginia University who will be giving their best tips, tricks, and insights on topics important to consider when applying for graduate school.
Hey everyone, we are back for another episode! Today, I am bringing on Julie Thalman, the Assistant Provost for Online and Continuing Professional Education who will be chatting about pursuing an online graduate degree. If you are considering enrolling in an advanced online program here at WVU, you may have some questions regarding the admissions process and concerns about what it would actually mean for you to enroll in an online graduate program. So we are here today to hopefully answer some of those questions for all of you listeners out there.
So, yo! Welcome to the show, Julie! It is a joy and honor to have you here with me today. How about we start with you telling me a little bit about yourself, maybe your position at the university, your career, if you’ve got pets, anything of your fancy!
Julie Thalman: Sure, thanks Erin, for having me! I’m Julie Thalman, I’m the assistant provost for online and continuing professional education at the university. I’ve been at WVU Online for quite some time, about fourteen years now. I started out as a recruiter and worked my way up through the ranks. Previously, I started my career in student affairs, with the commuter student program. So I’ve worked in higher education for quite some time.
Before my higher education journey, I actually worked in marketing in the private sector. I always say that marketing is my first true love, but for some reason, higher-ed called me back because I like to help students succeed. Also, I taught numerous online courses. I’ve taught for the art institute of Pittsburg for seven years, teaching various online marketing courses, branding courses, advertising, and PR. I hold my MBA from Boise State University, I did that online. I also have my M.S. from WVU and I was in the first graduating cohort back in 2005, of the IMC program. So I think it’s interesting because I’ve taught online, I’ve had experience with numerous learning platforms, so I think that I can talk someone through that grad online process pretty easily.
Erin Fields: That’s so awesome! I also didn’t know that you taught previously, that’s very exciting! Did you enjoy teaching?
Julie Thalman: I loved teaching. At the art institutes, we did five-and-a-half-week courses, so that was interesting. But yeah, any chance I get, I dabble in teaching a little bit. I wouldn't want to do it full-time.
Erin Fields: So I get many questions about what it actually means to attend graduate school, the end result of both doing it online and an on-campus program is a degree, but the two methods are diverse in many regards. So what sets online learning apart from traditional, on-campus learning?
Julie Thalman: That’s a great question. I think the number one question we get, and I do want to clear up any misconceptions – at WVU, if you earn your degree online, no one knows. The modality is not reflected on your degree. So, it’s just a delivery modality, that’s all it is. It’s rigorous, it’s taught, many times, by the same faculty on campus. I just like to clear up that myth that an online degree is maybe easier or that employers devalue it because that is not the case.
I think the beauty of online learning is that it allows individuals to learn when it’s convenient for them. Most of our individuals in the online programs seem to be working adults, parents, and working Americans. We see a lot of career switchers, so they have to sometimes juggle things. If 4 AM or 5 AM works for a mom or dad, that's what time they want to log in and learn. Sometimes it’s 11 o’clock at night, sometimes it’s 7 PM. I really think it just allows individuals to tailor their education to their own schedule. You don’t always get that in an on-campus program. At WVU, especially in the graduate realm, we have a lot of evening classes, but being on campus doesn’t always work. So I just think it allows an individual to say, “Hey, this is a good time for me to log in and learn.”
Erin Fields: That’s really cool, and it’s funny how you point out the misconception of it saying on the diploma or the degree that it was earned online. I can attest as well as you Julia, that it is not on there. It just says you earned this degree.
I also graduated from WVU with an M.S. in Integrated Marketing Communications, so I have some experience being enrolled in an online program, and I, like you said, really appreciated the ability to be able to work while pursuing my graduate degree. A lot of times it felt like I was killing two birds with one stone, in terms of how integrated my coursework was with my career. So can you go into a bit more detail about the flexibility and accessibility provided through WVU Online?
Julie Thalman: Yeah, that’s a great way to put it, Erin, that you can work toward a degree that’s impacting your current career. We see that all the time, whether that’s a communications professional doing the IMC degree, or a safety management professional studying safety management. They’re able to enroll in a program that shows an immediate impact on their current career, and that’s huge, that’s not always the case in education.
But I think one of the things that we as an institution do well is really knowing the market trends. Before we launch any online program, we do feasibility studies to not only make sure that the conditions are viable in terms of degrees being rewarded by other institutions but what regional employers need. What are their demands? And then we actually talk to those employers and try to tailor some curriculum around those needs. So I think that's one of the beauties of WVU Online.
And then in terms of flexibility and accessibility, not only are you able to work on your own time, but WVU Online has the exact same resources that on-campus students get. Whether it’s 24-hour tutoring, mental health counseling, or proctoring, those services are all available. We’re currently working on an arrangement where students who are in the online programs and are local can use the Rec center for free, and maybe attend some sporting events.
Students in online programs at WVU pay a different rate than the on-campus students. So we streamline those fees because we got feedback from students like, “Hey, why am I paying the PRT when I’m not on campus?”. So we’ve really worked to design our programs and structures in ways that are not only really flexible but are accommodating for those adult learners.
Erin Fields: I remember going through the last part of my graduate degree, and I was able to overlap my CAPStone with my career, and I was like, “Yes, this is so convenient!” and it was something that I was able to show and present here at work and also turn in for a grade, which I did pretty well on!
Julie Thalman: We have a great online sports management program, and I’ve sat in on some of their CAPStone projects to evaluate them virtually, and a lot of the students are absent, if you will because they’ve already started jobs. They’re working in the field, they’re getting that hands-on experience, and they’re applying for jobs. Our programs are so hot that their employers are snagging them up before they even have their diplomas. I love that you were able to do that CAPStone and overlap it with your work!
Erin Fields: It definitely took off some of the stress of having to do two separate things at one time! I love how you said that WVU Online really looks at the needs of the trends and things going on. I can really see that in the instructional design of education masters, the IDE program online. I get a lot of students that are looking for different educational trends and they are able to use that Master’s programs to build out various theories and courses.
Julie Thalman: That’s really important to us as a unit, and I think for online education as a whole for the university. We’re never going to have 20,000 students like some of the for-profits or some of the bigger non-profit schools because we’re really thoughtful and a lot of research goes into any of the degrees before we launch them online.
And sometimes I wonder, “What are we trying to do? Do we want 5,000 online students? Or do we want 10,000?” and I think we would be comfortable at 5,000 because again, we really have a niche audience that we’re trying to focus on. Sometimes it’s on-campus students who graduated that go off and get a job and they’re familiar with WVU and the quality education that they’ve received here. So those are the types of students that we’re seeing in our online grad programs because they already know what they’re going to get: flexible, affordable, at an R1 institution. Not many other institutions can say that.
Erin Fields: Right. So with on-campus programs, we talked about graduate assistantships and fellowships. Are online students able to apply for different types of graduate assistantships?
Julie Thalman: Sure! That's a great question, and it’s an ongoing conversation. Some of our graduate programs online do hire GAs and do assistantships. But it actually depends on the academic home and the program. I know that the IMC program does a lot of those assistantships, which is wonderful. I know that business does some, again it’s just on a case-by-case basis. I always encourage students, because we do actually get that question a lot, to reach out to the academic home to see what opportunities are available to them.
Erin Fields: I know that sport management, bringing that program back up, they have an on-campus and an online version, and I know that with the online version you cannot have a GA, if you want a GA, you must switch to the on-campus program, so like you said it varies. The educational landscape is changing. And in fact, it feels like it is always changing in some form or another. So with that being said, what do you think folks should know before becoming an online graduate student?
Julie Thalman: I think I might have briefly touched on this a second ago, but WVU is a land grant R1 institution. There are only 130 institutions across the country that actually hold that designation. So that’s a big deal for us. So I think that said, time management and organization are critical. I think sometimes there’s another misnomer that online courses are easier, wherein my experience is I think they’re sometimes more rigorous. A lot of times they’re condensed into that eight-week format, so you’re taking that traditional sixteen-week course and condensing it to 8-weeks, so what would be taught over sixteen weeks is now taught over eight, so there’s a lot of reading, there’s a lot of discussion posts, there’s a lot of engagement. So time management is really critical.
And I also think that WVU’s online programs do a really good job of utilizing asynchronous courses. If there is a time that there needs to be a hybrid course or a synchronous portion, where the professor wants the student to log in at a dedicated time, that’s well-communicated in advance. Our coaches talk about that, it’s in the syllabus so that students can plan accordingly. I also think that under asynchronous learning, students need to understand that while there’s no set log-in time, there are strict deadlines for discussion board posts and assignments. These aren’t correspondence courses where you just turn things in at the end. There are weekly modules that you go in, you have structured, required readings that you do, you do discussion posts–usually 2-3 required discussion posts–, and I really encourage that students not only do the required posts but really engage with their peers.
I know a lot of times students don’t want to do an online program because they think they won’t meet anyone or have that engagement. But from my experiences with Boise Stae, two of my dearest friends now are people that I grew with in that program. One of them lives in Seattle, and the other lives in South Carolina, and we’re all meeting up in August for a little Boise State Reunion at a football game because we just developed that friendship. And I think as an adult learner in an online grad program, having someone else in the program that you can share your stories with, or maybe if you get lost on a particular assignment and you want to vent your frustrations to them, find someone in that program that you can share things with because it’s much easier to hold yourself accountable if you have someone else in that program also holding you accountable.
With an online program, you get what you make of it. So if you put in that extra effort and try to make some friendships, you’re going to have a really positive experience. At the end of the day, you’ve gotta be willing to really put the time in, because the majority of our classes at WVU are taught by the same faculty that teach on-campus. So they’re experienced, they’re vetted, they’re prestigious faculty, so they expect you to give 110% effort, regardless of your modality.
Erin Fields: As you said, you get out what you put in. I think sometimes, especially when you’re doing weekly discussion boards, it can be easy to forget that there is someone on the other side of the screen. But it’s super cool when you bond with people and then you actually do meet them in person, that’s one of my favorite things that I loved about my program is that they have a marketing conference every summer, now that we’re able to do things, and it’s so fun to actually meet people because for the longest time you’d just see them on video or you would see a picture of them, so it’s kinda weird, I’m not going to lie.
Julie Thalman: I know! I’m actually Zooming with my two friends from Boise State tonight because we haven’t had a Zoom meetup, and I’m looking forward to it. And it is really cool how close you can become to individuals who you’ve never met in person, it’s great!
Erin Fields: Technology is something else! So, is the application process different for online programs, or is it similar to on-campus programs?
Julie Thalman: We worked in 2021 to launch an online application, it’s through the same process whether you’re doing an on-campus grad program or an online grad program. The online does have a new streamlined app, where only online graduate programs are shown. It’s a little different in that we’ve removed some of the questions that you’d have to collect if the traditional twenty-two or twenty-three-year-old grad student was coming to campus. We don’t ask for your parent’s information; we ask for an emergency contact instead. We’ve removed test scores because a number of online programs no longer require those.
So, where we were able to cut questions to make that information more streamlined, we did so. But if anyone had any specific questions, they’d have to reach out to graduate admissions because y’all are the experts and can walk that student through the application process.
Erin Fields: The student in me is screaming yay that test scores are going away!
Julie Thalman: Yeah, my Boise State program actually had tests, which was weird, and I was thinking, “Wow I haven’t felt this way since I was twenty-one, twenty-two years old!” But those test scores for online programs, I’m just thrilled that they’re going away.
Erin Fields: Yes! And I loved how hands-on my program was. A lot more projects were hands-on. It wasn’t about evaluating or just memorization, you actually applied what you were learning, and that is something I will always be appreciative of in my program. So the last academic question that I have for you is what advice would you have for a student interested in wanting to pursue an online graduate program here at WVU?
Julie Thalman: They should use the resources. WVU Online has an admissions center with coaches that actually can help guide a student from the point of inquiry to completing an application, to actually getting enrolled for their courses. I think that’s really important because we don’t want online learners to feel like they’re on their own. We don’t want them to submit their application and feel like they’re in limbo. We really encourage them to reach out to their coach. You’ll be assigned a coach and once you start to inquire, the coach will work with you. So we really hope that you actually develop a relationship with those coaches. I think it’s also very important that you focus on a field of study that captures not only your interests but will actually fuel your passion throughout your career.
We see a lot of career switchers online, and a lot of the questions that we get are about what to do and where to start. We had a student call about the Business Data and Analytics program, and my coaches told me the first thing the individual said was that they hated math. And I said, “Okay, well then the Business Data Analytics program is definitely not for you if you hate math.” And by the end of the conversation, what the coach found out is that they were really interested in digital marketing. They just didn’t know how to convey what they had really hoped to do in their career. So I think that’s the benefit of that learner engagement center. There’s so much out there in terms of information, and so many schools are offering online programs. But reach out to one of our coaches and have that conversation and allow them to understand what you hope to achieve. Or if they’re currently in a career and looking for a new option, talk that through and let them help guide you to a degree path of your choice. A lot of our degrees allow you to focus on projects that are applicable to the career that you're currently in. I think it’s important that you have those conversations upfront.
And then finally, I think it’s important that you always keep your end goal and your why in mind. With online learning, I’ve seen it first-hand with friends in online programs and then with our students, if they take a semester off or life happens, sometimes they don’t come back. So when that happens, we always try to intervene and keep that why. My dad always says, “The time’s gonna pass you by anyway, so you may as well have a goal for that time.” So I just think you have to find something that drives you, especially in an online program, where there’s so much outside noise anyway, that keeps you on your path for degree persistence. And I really think that WVU Online is set up to help students stay on track and stay with that ultimate goal of graduating at the end.
Erin Fields: I’m gonna give you a standing ovation for that answer, that was good! It’s definitely important to keep that “why” for sure. So, Julie, now that we've gotten the academic questions out of the way, I’d like to end our episode with a few speed-round questions. Are you ready?
Julie Thalman: I’m ready!
Erin Fields: Number one: how do you drink your coffee?
Julie Thalman: I don’t.
Erin Fields: Ah!
Julie Thalman: I know, I’m a Coke Zero junkie which I know is probably terrible for you.
Erin Fields: Not even, “I don’t drink coffee, I drink tea”?
Julie Thalman: I drink Coke Zero, I don’t like warm beverages, they freak me out.
Erin Fields: What?!
Julie Thalman: I know, it’s bizarre, I’ve tried it every way, I’m just not a fan.
Erin Fields: Well, I like my coffee black.
Julie Thalman: Well, that’s hard-core, man.
Erin Fields: What is your go-to karaoke song?
Julie Thalman: Oh Lord. I guess, “Hit Me One More Time”?
Erin Fields: Oooh Britney Spears!
Julie Thalman: What can I say, I’m dating myself. I’m part of the Free Britney Movement
Erin Fields: Oh snap!
Julie Thalman: Yeah I’ve seen Britney four times in concert, I love her. I think she’s fabulous, I follow her on Instagram and I actually have it set so that if she posts a new video, I get an alert. So I’m telling you, I love Britney, she’s my girl, and yay for Britney finally being free!
Erin Fields: Mad respect, I’m so happy that I learned that about you today, that’s amazing.
Julie Thalman: Well, you know. I’m a woman of many layers.
Erin Fields: Our last question is what is your Hogwarts house, do you know or do you not know?
Julie Thalman: I do not know, because I’m old.
Erin Fields: Not a Harry Potter fan? Julie!
Julie Thalman: I’ve never seen Harry Potter, I’m old! I’m like in my mid-forties, I don’t know what Harry Potter is.
Erin Fields: I mean I’ll send you the link, so then I can come back and say, “Hey folks, she’s a…”
Julie Thalman: I don’t know, of all the questions I thought you were going to end with, I thought you were going to ask me if I was a dog or cat person for some reason.
Erin Fields: Alright, are you a dog or a cat person?
Julie Thalman: I’m a cat person, we have three cats, all rescues. Daisy is five, her owner actually passed away, so we took her. And then we have Dolly, who is about six months old, and Bearcub who’s about five and a half months old. Dolly was dumped out at Cheat Lake, and Mountaineer for Mutts Rescue rescued her, and Bearcub is a holy terror and his mom died when he was three weeks old, so we had to bottle feed him. But a plug here for Mountaineer for Mutts, because we have all three of our pets from that animal rescue. I’m a cat mom, I don’t know what Hogwarts house I would be in, but I’m definitely a cat mom. They would probably have their own house.
Erin Fields: That’s your Hogwarts house, Cat Mom.
Julie Thalman: I don’t know, but now I’m dying to know what this means and I’m going to have to look it up.
Erin Fields: You have to let me know.
Julie Thalman: I will!
Erin Fields: Well thank you so much, Julie, for sharing your insights and knowledge with us on the show today, about online graduate school, and for putting up with my speed-round questions as well to keep you on your toes!
Today’s episode was brought to you by the West Virginia University office of graduate admissions. For more information about graduate education at West Virginia University, please visit our website at www.graduateadmissions.wvu.edu. If you’ve enjoyed or found value in anything you heard today, we recommend you leave a review on your favorite listening platform, follow us on social media, and subscribe to be notified of our new episodes coming out once a month.
Thanks for listening, and until next time, let’s go Mountaineers!
