EPISODE Transcript
Erin Fields: Well hello, happy time zones for those listening, no matter where you may be!
Welcome to the Summit Ahead: a podcast for future graduate students, brought to you by the West Virginia University Office of Graduate Admissions.
I’m your host, Erin Fields and I invite you to join me over the course of the show’s season as I chat with higher education professionals at West Virginia University who will be giving their best tips, tricks, and insights on topics important to consider when applying for graduate school. On today’s episode, which just so happens to be episode one, I’m sitting down with Shelly Quance, the director of graduate admissions at West Virginia University, who will be diving deep into what application reviewers are looking for on graduate school applications.
It is sure to be a fun episode with tons of wisdom for you to walk away with. But without further ado, welcome to the show, Shelly! It’s great to have you here. Why don’t we open this conversation with you telling us a little bit about yourself?
Shelly Quance: Well, thank you, Erin. It’s a pleasure to be here as part of our inaugural podcast. I’m very excited about this. So, just a little bit about my background. Early in my career, I worked in marketing and public relations, and I somehow landed in higher education. I spent about nine years working with a West Virginia University graduate program where I recruited students to go through the application and admission process, and then I served as their advisor until they completed the program. I really enjoyed that. Then an opportunity presented itself to move into a role where I would work with all graduate programs across the university, on recruitment and admission processing.
I’ve been doing that for about the last seven years now. Which has been really rewarding and really interesting. I’ve learned a lot about a lot of different programs, and a lot of different types of students, and I really love what I do. And I’m excited about this podcast and being able to give some insights to potential applicants that are going to be beneficial to them during their application and admission journey.
Erin Fields: So, what would you say is your favorite part about working in graduate education?
Shelly Quance: Well, I think my favorite part is just seeing how students are able to achieve more based on higher education. In graduate education, we see a lot of students who have very different goals for their graduate degrees. We have those who want to be professional academics: they want to teach or they want to do research or maybe they want to do research in the industry. And so those folks know that they’re going to need that doctorate degree to be able to achieve that professional dream that they have.
We also then have folks who are maybe currently working in the field, so they’ve been out of school for a while and they’ve realized to really be marketable and move up in their career, they’re going to need to be more competitive, and a graduate degree is going to give them that competitive edge. So, they come back. Some of them work while they’re completing a graduate degree, and others take time off, but it’s interesting to see how they are very different students than they were when they were originally undergraduate students. They’ve been out in the real world for a little bit and have some professional experience. They just approach education in a whole different way. And seeing them be able to take the next step in their career or transition from one field to another, after they’ve obtained that graduate degree, those are the things that I think are my favorite parts of my job, just seeing how education sort of transforms people's lives.
Erin Fields: It’s very rewarding! I myself have been through the graduate application process, specifically here, at WVU, and I think the task of filling out a graduate application can kind of seem a little overwhelming at first. Between preparing yourself mentally to do it, because it’s a lot of investment, but also test scores, recommendations, and just filling out a boatload of information. So, what suggestions do you have to combat that overwhelming feeling?
Shelly Quance: I think it’s important to take it a step at a time. It is a lot of questions and a lot of gathering of information, but there’s nothing that says that you have to do it all in one sitting. We have an online application that allows you to create an account, open the application, start completing it, save it, and you can go back to it later.
So, my advice is to break it up a little bit. And I guess one of my most important tips is to go back and review all parts of the application before you submit it. You’ve taken a lot of time and invested a lot of your energy into the document, and you want to make sure that everything is done correctly and that things are spelled correctly. I know by the time you get to the end you just want to hit submit and be done, but it is important to go back and give it one more look over before you hit that submit button.
Erin Fields: Yeah, it definitely helps to think of the application process more as in pieces, but things do go holistically together. But when you’re thinking of it all as one giant thing, that’s when it becomes overwhelming. I think a big stereotype, going off the application, is how much GPA scores or test scores really factor into your application and the admission decision. Many times I hear students ask me about the weight of those academics.
Is there more to a well-rounded candidate than just those numbers?
Shelly Quance: Yes, there is. And I actually have a presentation that I share with potential students that talks about this very thing. The presentation was inspired by an incident where a young man did not get admitted to an MBA program. We got a phone call from his father, who was very irate, and demanded to know why his son had not been admitted to our program because he had a great GPA and very high test score, and certainly, you know, that made him eligible to be admitted.
So, the first point I want to make about that story is: don’t have your dad call. It’s very important that when you get to the stage of being a graduate student to appear to be self-sufficient and independent and able to have conversations for yourself about your admission. So, that would be number one. Number two is graduate school is a very competitive process, and yes, there are stated requirements for admission, but that is not a guarantee that if you meet those requirements you automatically are admitted. There are a limited number of seats. What faculty and graduate program coordinators are doing is they’re looking at the pool and figuring out who are the best candidates that are most likely to be successful in that graduate program. And that goes far beyond just a GPA and a test score.
One of the trends that we're really seeing, and we were seeing a little bit before COVID, but since the COVID pandemic, we're seeing it more and more, is that graduate programs are getting away from standardized test requirements. A lot of that is because during COVID it was very difficult to be able to get access to a testing site to take the test, so a lot of programs were temporarily waiving that requirement. But I think what a lot of programs have learned over time is that in many cases, and in many different graduate programs, a test score is not necessarily indicative of how successful someone is going to be in that program So, we’re seeing a little bit of a step back from test requirements. I’m not saying it’s completely gone, but we are seeing less of it.
I think what graduate programs are really looking for is to know the candidate, understand the candidate’s motivations, and determine their work ethic. And I think those are characteristics that make it much more predictable in terms of how they’re going to do in a graduate program. So, where an applicant can really show those types of things would be in their personal statement. Talk about the specific goal that they have in mind for their career and how this graduate program is going to be stuff that is necessary to get them there. I think letters of recommendation from colleagues or professors who you've previously had speak a lot about your work ethic and your dedication to academics. Certainly, if a graduate program does interviews, that’s definitely an opportunity to showcase those aspects. And any other ways that people see more than numbers, that they see that there's an actual individual there that has passion and wants to work hard to achieve their goals.
Erin Fields: So, do you think that that depends on the program, or do you think that there are some characteristics that all applicants can aim for?
Shelly Quance: I think some programs look to grades and test scores more heavily than others. But I think what we're seeing now is a trend of a much more holistic review of the applicant and again, looking for characteristics and personality traits that indicate that that person is going to be successful. Many graduate programs are very writing intensive, and so there is a lot of emphasis on looking at that personal statement or any writing samples that might need to be submitted. That’s why I really try to stress to applicants to take their time when developing those personal statements or writing samples. Make sure that you go back and proof them. Proof them a third time, a fourth time. Have someone else look at it for you because sometimes you’re so close to it that you don't see the errors.
That is a document that can be really reflective of your attention to detail. So, I think things like that, that your average applicant thinks are secondary or extra, are things that are actually very important and that we are using to really get some insight into what type of student the applicant is going to be.
Erin Fields: I really like the point that you brought up about how you feel that higher education, at least at WVU, is transitioning away from so much emphasis on the GRE, and things like that. I remember when I was going through the graduate application process, at that time, the GRE was optional. And I was very thankful for that because even though I do well in the classroom, I personally am not a very good test taker. I feel like I get really anxious about test-taking, and there is so much more to an applicant beyond just what is required on a test.
Shelly Quance: I think you've really hit an important point that I think a lot of graduate programs have come to realize, which is that in graduate education, it’s not a lot of test taking. It’s a lot of hands-on research, it’s a lot of writing, it’s a lot of interaction with your instructors and your classmates. So, looking at a test score to find out how much you know about certain topics doesn't seem to make a lot of sense in determining how successful you're going to be in a graduate program.
Erin Fields: Right, I completely agree. So, going to graduate school is a huge investment, no doubt. Not only financially, but also in regards to time as well. So, those two things have a pretty big factor in deciding when you should go to graduate school. How do you know when “the right time” to go to graduate school is?
Shelly Quance: Interesting question. Unfortunately, there isn’t a right answer. That varies based on the individual and their particular goals and life situation. So, we are seeing a trend where we have a lot more folks going straight from undergrad into a graduate program. I think a lot of folks realize that in today’s job market, a graduate degree does make you more competitive, so there are folks who think, “You know what, I’m already in the school mode, I’m just gonna keep going." And that works well for a lot of people, and it does help to have that degree to set you apart in the job market.
But there’s also something to be said for finishing your undergraduate degree, working for a while, and then coming back. I know there were probably fourteen years between the time that I finished my undergraduate degree and then went back and started a graduate degree. And I was a completely different student than I had been as an undergrad. And that was based on life experience and on professional experience. What I was looking to get out of the education was much different. So, I think that there certainly is some value in taking that approach. It just depends on the individual. The other thing to recognize is that graduate school is intense. It takes a lot of time and work and energy. So, you have to look at your lifestyle as well. When I started my graduate degree, I was working a full-time job, and I was married and had a six-year-old. So it took me a long time – I could only take one class at a time, and it took me over four years to finish my master’s degree. I had to pace myself in order to still be a wife and a mom and a good employee.
So, those are things you have to take into consideration too: are you going to be able to balance it with other areas of responsibility in your life? Some people have elderly parents that they are responsible for and taking care of.
I also think if you are already out from your undergraduate degree and working, it’s always a good idea to have a conversation with your employer about your desire to go back to school, and how supportive they are going to be about that. Not only in terms of looking to see if there is any type of tuition reimbursement assistance, but also in terms of flexibility in your job and just how supportive they’re going to be to you taking on this new responsibility.
Erin Fields: Yeah, it’s definitely very dependent on your situation and also on your goals. I remember going to graduate school was always a goal of mine, even through undergrad, I knew that I always wanted to go to graduate school.
And it just so happened that my natural step was to go to graduate school right after undergrad because I knew that I wanted to advance my career and that was the time that I felt was good for me to be able to balance everything. And I was still in school mode. And that ended up obviously paying off because I got accepted here, then I became a graduate assistant in our office, and that led to a full-time position, which is why I’m here now. So, it’s a lot of different things you have to consider when thinking of when you should go to graduate school.
Shelly Quance: Definitely, and there are a lot of things that can happen along the way. Your story is a very interesting one, but the decisions that you made and the decisions that were made about where you were going to go to school presented opportunities that have gotten you to where you are right now. And that’s always important. There are a lot of networking opportunities in graduate school, and those are important aspects of the whole graduate school experience.
For me, back when I finished my undergrad, you didn’t necessarily need a graduate degree to be super competitive in the workplace. And then as I got ten, fifteen years into my career and I was applying for positions, I had the experience, but I wasn’t even getting an interview. And finally, a work friend of mine said, “Well, you’re just not getting in the right pile.” And I said, “What do you mean?” And she said, “Well, they post a job and they get a hundred applications, how are they going to weed through all of those applications? They start to look through education level...and they say, ‘We’ll put all the people who have advanced degrees in this pile and we’ll start there.’ You’re not getting into that pile.”
So it was a very different motivation when I went back to get my graduate degree. Now, for those who know they want a career in academics, or for those who want a career in research, it obviously makes sense to go on and start doing that graduate program right after undergrad and really start making those contacts and networking and things like that. But for other people, there are some advantages to taking some time between.
Erin Fields: So, speaking of motivations, there are a lot of different ones about why people go to grad school. I hear a lot of students wanting to go to graduate school just because they don’t know what they want to do coming right out of their undergraduate degree. Why do you think it’s important to have clearly defined goals coming right out of graduate school?
Shelly Quance: I am a big believer in “you must have a specific reason for being a graduate student." I too have had a similar experience, where I’ve had someone call me up and say, “Yeah I’d like to know more about graduate school." And I’ll say, “Well okay, what program are you interested in?” and if the response is, “I really don’t know, I just thought I might want to go to graduate school," that is a huge red flag for me.
Graduate school should not be a decision based on you not being ready to go out into the professional world yet. It’s too hard, and it’s too time-consuming to not have a clear direction. So, what I tell folks is your graduate degree should always be a means to an end. What I tell folks is to start thinking about what you want to do. And you can start very basic with things like: Do I want to do something where I primarily work independently, or is it important for me to be part of a team? Do I like interacting with other people? What type of work do I like doing? Where do I see myself living? Because a lot of times jobs can be very geographic specific.
Once you've got some ideas of what you think you want to do professionally, then really start researching those jobs. Start looking at what the wanted ads for those positions are saying is required to be competitive for those positions: what kind of degree do you need, what kind of experience do you need? And then I always suggest shadowing someone who’s been working in that field. Even if you don’t know someone, make some contacts. Most professionals are happy to let someone shadow and be able to mentor someone and give them some insight into what it’s like working in a particular field And then once you've done that and you know what the requirements are, that’s when you want to start figuring out where you want to go for your graduate degree, and how do you make yourself competitive to get into the graduate program.
Now, a lot can change while you’re in graduate school. You may end up wanting to go in a different direction, and that’s perfectly fine, but at least you’re entering with a sense of purpose. It’s something that if you see the light at the end of the tunnel, you’re going to be much more focused and much more engaged and get a lot more out of the experience.
Erin Fields: That’s so true. Thank you so much, Shelly, for coming on the show today and chatting with me, and giving us so many nuggets of wisdom that we can walk away with!
Today’s episode was brought to you by the West Virginia University office of graduate admissions. For more information on graduate education at West Virginia University, please visit our website at www.graduateadmissions.wvu.edu. If you enjoyed or found value in anything you heard today, we recommend you leave a review on your favorite listening platform, follow us on social media, and subscribe to be notified of our new episodes coming out once a month.
Thanks for listening, and until next time, let’s go Mountaineers!
Click below to unlock the ultimate guide to applying to grad school at wvu.
